Royal is amazing at game selection and when to play.  It really can take you far...

You are right about the profile playing tight....I originally coded it that way to beat up on the donkies.  It's one of those grind it out type deals....

However, its been a long time since I've given this profile my full attention and I do feel it needs some updates.  Shortstackplay is one of them.

I'll be doing the Vegas thing for a few days so I'll work on this when I return.  Thanks for posting those logs!

SaucedUp26

Sounds good. I have many logs for you to look at. It plays great when it has a nut hand. When it doesn't it really makes me cry. Updates sounds good. 

In that case - game selection tips please? Cos so far I'm down ~ $250 using this profile. Only play paying 18+ places tourneys.

Wow, down $250 using the Omaha Hi MTT profile?  That is amazing..

I have to look at this from an authors point of view, as well as a players.  If you have indeed lost this much money playing tournaments that would indicate you have played a good number of games, correct?

That being said, how did you get taken out?  Have you found logs that indicate bad plays?  Any leaks in the logs you have studied?  If it has lost this many games there must be a reason behind it; you can send all logs to omaha.profiles@gmail.com, or post them here, but seeing as you have lost that much, I would be very interested to see the logs that led you to lose that money - bad beats? Suck Outs? Coin Flips? Short stack pushes? Leaks?

Given that you must have played a great number of games, I am very much interested and keen to see the logs that got you into your situstion, the Omaha Hi MTT Profile has always been our strongest profile, it does play a tight game but that is why it is so good.  We have discussed making a loose MTT version to play more hands preflop in an attempt to flop more monsters or monster draws; and to also sharpen its teeth for when the blinds start to get bigger, and it gets more serious - maybe we could put this back on the table, I would love to have a shot at making a tournament profile that "shifts gears", but I do have a lot on my plate.

I look forward to seeing a large quantity of logs.

Royal

Sounds awesome. I've played a large number of the $3 and $5 MTTs, and a couple of $24 when I earned tickets via sats or ft academy points. To be honest, I don't have any logs atm, as I recently had to wipe my computer. The reason I had these was because I was watching them to make sure it was ok after a fresh install. but I play enough that I should have some for you soon.

My biggest criticism of this profile is definitely the shorthanded and/or shortstacked play. It doesn't loosen up at all as far as I can see. Apart from having AAxx cracked aipf by eg. AQKT etc constantly (~10% of the time), they only way I have gone out is missing monster draws allin (approx 30% of the time) or getting blinded out so low theres simply no recoevry (the other ~60%).

I've not looked through the code, but does this even have final table and/or heads up coding?

I have played a total of 62 tournaments, with 2 minor (doubleup) cashes :( I can't say it's a settings issue, as my holdem runs flawlessly.

Thanks for the great support though all, encouraging. I will be sure to post logs or email large ones to you. I can't be bothered to ombufscate them so I trust you'll keep certain things to yourself ;)

Thanks again

Skillzzz

Seriously? Why do we check/raise pot preflop if we're going to fold to a 1/2 pot allin bet on a raggy flop??? Are we waiting for a set of aces or more? I just don't understand the play, sorry.

As Royal had done so well with this in his R2R challenge I just assumed it had few/no leaks. Can't believe I've just been leaving it to play thus far... This is your flagship profile guys, and I can't get how it's successful making plays such as this.

Shanky Technologies Omaha Hi Version 5.2.8: Hand: Ad 7s Ah Ks 

Players = 8 hands played in session = 67

in timer: players = 8, folds in game= 0, raises = 0, checks = 0, calls = 0, bets = 0, folds = 0

casino = FT 9 Max, game = Pot Limit Tourny, BB = 60.00, Pot = 1 BBs, Stack = 2885.00, TI = 0 BBs

Matching user defined condition at line 2073, Action = call force

clicking Call

in timer: players = 8, folds in game= 5, raises = 1, checks = 0, calls = 1, bets = 0, folds = 5

casino = FT 9 Max, game = Pot Limit Tourny, BB = 60.00, Pot = 11 BBs, Stack = 2825.00, TI = 1 BBs

Matching user defined condition at line 2076, Action = raisepot force

clicking POT

clicking Raise

in timer: players = 8, folds in game= 5, raises = 2, checks = 0, calls = 2, bets = 0, folds = 5

casino = FT 9 Max, game = Pot Limit Tourny, BB = 60.00, Pot = 60 BBs, Stack = 1715.00, TI = 19 BBs

Matching user defined condition at line 2076, Action = raisepot force

Raise button not found

clicking Call

Flop: 6h 3h 9d 

Board: 2 suits no possible straight

in timer: players = 8, folds in game= 6, raises = 0, checks = 0, calls = 0, bets = 0, folds = 0

casino = FT 9 Max, game = Pot Limit Tourny, BB = 60.00, Pot = 61 BBs, Stack = 1670.00, TI = 20 BBs

opponents = 2, position = first

Matching user defined condition at line 2850, Action = fold

clicking Check

in timer: players = 8, folds in game= 6, raises = 0, checks = 0, calls = 0, bets = 1, folds = 0

casino = FT 9 Max, game = Pot Limit Tourny, BB = 60.00, Pot = 92 BBs, Stack = 1670.00, TI = 20 BBs

Matching user defined condition at line 2850, Action = fold

clicking Fold

I do not believe the profile has leaks.  It plays a tight aggressive style, very tight.  I think your more reffering to a different playing style rather then an actual leak.  This profile was designed to be tight, to sit and wait; and that is what it does.

As I suggested, and SU did too, the short handed code and short stacked code may need some updating as the omaha traffic has changed a lot in the last 6 months; and I could possibly design a more "bark and bite" type style that a lot of users may prefer.

Royal

Okyies well I guess if it's designed to be like that, fair enough. And you seriously think the above fold was correct?

In Omaha AAxx is almost exactly a 50/50 against hands like 2345, 6789, 9Jk8 - and the list goes on.  The flop in the above hand didn't help you at all; your opponant most likely flopped two pair with a flush draw, or trips with a flush draw, there are so many hands that easily kill you aces.  Omaha is not a game of over pairs; when the blinds are big and the pot total is big yes, a pushable hand, but as I mentioned above almost any random four cards is a 50/50 with AA or any over pair.

We have had members complain about this a lot, but the simple fact is 90% of Omaha players play aces wrong, or kings, or queens.  Yes they CAN be a strong hand, but on a flop like that you need to grab your tail and run.

Royal

But we've invested half our stack, and are getting 3 to 1 on a call. Unless they have flopped top set, we have the odds imo. There are very few hands that he plays like this (raise, call a reraise for half his stack) that we are a 3-to-1 underdog to. Even if he has a wrap and a fd we have odds I think. I guess its closer than I originally thought though.

Just my 2c

Ok,

I understand what your getting at, but I think we will have to agree to disagree that this is a playing style issue; I think the fold is good, more often then not your going to be beat on this hand, you have no draw, and no real Omaha hand.  A pair of aces is not going to get you far in Omaha; now you mentioned you were "invested" idicating you had put in half your stack, its actually more like %40 of your stack, and your remaining stack is over 20 big blinds, (its 27 to be exact) which in tournament Omaha is a very decent stack to play off - also taking into account most Omaha tournaments do not have antes.

I can assure you we have had this arguement/debate on hands exactly like the one you showed many times before, and we have stuck with the current style because over time the best hand wins, and it def. does that.  It is a tight player, its short stack play could use a little tweak (which if you look back in older posts you will find me saying the same thing) and final table / short handed play could also be tweaked.

I also believe, and have for some time (its all in older posts) that this profile could use some code for when it has a large stack compared to the rest of the table, to capitalize on that advantage. (I.E - Bully code)

The profile can be improved, but I can assure you this profile is a winner, and many members will back me up.  There may be a play or two that you don't like, but remember we provide our profiles in .txt format so you can always make some tweaks of your own if you do not like the style this profile has been coded for.

In the end, your bot made a play with aces, got played back at, and hit nothing but air.  With a decent stack left in front of it, it jumped ship and got away from trouble, there are just far to many hands that could have you beat, and some massive draws.  Again, if there is enough interest I could code a more "fly be the seam of your pants" style MTT profile, so we can always discuss that.

I hope you can see past the pocket aces, in Omaha it means almost nothing unless the flop helps your hand, which in this case, it did not.

Royal

SU:

I think we should review how aces are played preflop, I know we have reviewed this before but the play above to me screams "I have aces" and would make it easy for an opponent to bet us off the hand when we get a shitty flop like that; instead of a call raise, perhaps just a call - call, see what comes out and go from there.

Almost 80% of Omaha players play over pairs wrong, I don't want our profile to be one of those.  Personally I like the play but I would prefer to see it make a play like this when the blinds and pot total are a little more appealing; at this stage of the tournament instead of trying to make a play I think we should be trying to hit a monster, and build our stack rather then have preflop battles.

Sure, later in the tournament the above is exactly what I would do, including the fold.  But early when the big blind is only 60, maybe we should tone it down a little and have it mine for gold hands rather then popping it up and starting a raising war when you know as well as I do, Omaha players especilly at Fulltilt will call a raise or even reraise with the most stupid hands, stupid hands that can crush our over played aces, or at least maybe we can save some stack when we do get htese, and wait for pushing our chips in to when we hit the flop, and or have a worth while draw.

Royal

I agree, but then I don't at the same time.  I think early in the tournament we should just limp with aces especially when your other two cards are not so hot, but later on when the blinds increase, yes raise away; but I think we have discussed this enough to warrant looking into how aces are played preflop.

Royal

Hey guys,

Sorry I havent chimmed in earlier.  Had a vegas trip and just moved my brother into a new house....I'm a little far away from my home base.

I think AA play and some other things def. need to be addressed.  Look forward to working with you guys on this and rolling out some frequent updates for this profile.  I'll get right on it.....and will address the above posts to thread.

SU

Sounds great. Glad I posted these logs. I've said it above to just to reiterate, I think the main error atm is putting in 40% of your stack with AAxx when you'll only continue on the flop 15% of the time - just makes no sense to me.

Thanks guys - looking forwards to updates 

made a preliminary update.  just changed the AA preflop play for now and added some hands it will push with preflop when shortstacked.

next update ill start to improve heads up play postflop and lossen this thing up a little

let me know if anyone thinks the AA play needs more tweaking

Can I suggest we keep the current version as the "tight" version, and any changes made to make it more "loose" can be added as a different profile?

Personally, I have had a lot wins with the tight profile and like the style of play, and would not like to see it ruined.

Royal

yeah good idea.  as i roll out updates....ill post two profiles and re-title them

Love this idea.

sorry guys i havent made alot of updates lately.  just got home from California.  will roll out more updates asap

if anyone has logs from these MTT games please send them over and I'll use the Omaha Toolbox to comb through them.